(Note: The fight has since been cancelled due to Hendricks’ resulting hospitalization while cutting weight)
This is part one of an exclusive Heavy Hands interview with UFC welterweight Tyron Woodley, who fights Johny Hendricks in the co-main event of UFC 192 this Saturday, October 3rd. For the full audio interview, head over to the Heavy Hands podcast episode here.
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Tyron, thank you for joining us today.
Oh, no problem at all, man. Glad you guys are having me on.
Absolutely. Many people know this: you hit really hard. What is it like to carry so much natural power? Is it a blessing as well as a curse–does it hinder your ability to learn new skills knowing that you can take anybody out with a single punch on any given day?
You know, it is a blessing to have that in your back pocket. It’s not like you can just go out and knock out each opponent and make easy money, but it’s just the concept of knowing that you pose that threat. So everybody that you fight, they have to be cautious that at any point this right hand could touch that chin and you could wake up talking to Stitch Duran.
For me it’s like, not trying to over-utilize it because you know that people are cautious of it and waiting on it. And usually when I land a big shot early, what happens is I go head hunting, and I want to land a big shot and get the fight over with. Sometimes it works out and sometimes it doesn’t so . . . as long as I start the fight using combinations, if the big shot comes within that I’m usually able to go back to combinations again and not just go out seeking for that one power shot.
So are you saying it gives you difficulty sometimes when you do land a big punch early? Do you kind of get tunnel vision?
Yeah, you know, if I land a big shot early I can go from thinking combinations in my mind to thinking one or two punches, or more power than speed and more cruel intentions than setting something up.
In Strikeforce you were more or less a pure wrestler with occasional moments of striking, but when you fought Nate Marquardt you kind of seemed to put everything together, and since then you’ve been a pretty willing striker and a consistent knockout artist. How did that come about? Was it a long process of transformation that led to that point where you felt comfortable with it?
No, you know what it was was just basically me training for many, many years with high-level striking coaches and boxers and I just needed to get myself to a point where I was confident trying to use it. Like, even throwing a jab! When you throw a jab you think, “If I step in with this jab they might throw a right hand or they might counter . . .” so I mean, there’s always that option. But when you start getting better at your defense, and you start knowing that you have good takedown defense, you’re more likely to take those risks and close that gap. Because you feel comfortable, knowing that you’re able to react and continue afterwards.
Your game has continued to develop. We know you do some training at ATT, we saw Duke Roufus in your corner in your last fight against Kelvin Gastelum. How much of your training do you do at either camp these days?
It just depends on who I’m fighting. I’m splitting it this time, so I’m going to do half with Duke and half at ATT. I just like the philosophy, the fight philosophy that Duke brings to the table. He’s one of the most experienced but quiet and humble beings you will find. But his level of experience, and the proven product he’s had, with Anthony [Pettis] and Din (Thomas) and some of the other fighters he has at the gym, he doesn’t come around like he knows everything. He’s always trying to learn, from anybody. I like that fighting philosophy.
As far as strategy, working with Din Thomas has been a blessing to me. He is like a genius when it comes to breaking down guys. He knows me more than he knows any fighter, you know? He knows my strengths, he knows my weaknesses, he knows what buttons to push. And ATT is just a great team. They’ve allowed me to have this partnership with Duke.
The goal is to make me the best fighter, and if that’s what I need to do, they support it a hundred percent. That’s why I fight for ATT.
You have a really interesting arrangement, then. Having spent time at two of the sport’s biggest and most respected camps, are there specific things you work on more at one than the other?
Yeah, for sure. I think Duke’s camp is a more intimate setting. It’s not just a free-for-all. You can’t just walk in and go, “Oh, I wanna train.” And I hate that idea, anyway. Fighters think that just because you fight for them you should just be able to come to the gym and train for free. That’s the stupidest thought ever.
So it’s a more intimate setting. It’s controlled for the fact that . . . it’s times when we’re working on stuff specifically for the exact opponent, I’m looking at the exact look that I need . . . and a lot of times you get these younger training partners that’ll stay in character. They’ll be Johny Hendricks. If they get hit in the face hard they don’t switch back to themselves and want to retaliate; they stay in character. So that’s kind of Duke’s setup.
ATT, when I walk in the door, when I just smell the gym. when I just look at those pictures hanging from the wall . . . I just feel like it’s fight time. That’s where I’m doing the second portion of the camp. I’m getting myself ready to go down there to get in fight-time mode. And also just the training partners and the resources are tremendous there. Just having so many different options, and people that are willing to help you. It’s all about being number one, and I do think ATT is the number one camp.
It’s interesting that you mention opponent mimicry going on at Duke Roufus’ gym. You work with Din Thomas, and he’s got a scouting service he’s running now. How does opponent-specific preparation differ under Din as opposed to under Duke?
Din Thomas is like this: he has an MMA scouting report–MMAscoutingreport.com, if any of you guys have any need to break down an opponent to a molecule–but the thing he does is that he’s really unbiased. He breaks down fights for Robbie [Lawler], and he breaks down fights for Thiago [Alves], who fought [Carlos] Condit, and I’m pretty sure he’ll break down Condit for Robbie. And with so many top welterweights, it’s an opportunity for all of us to all make it to the top.
But the bad thing is, you know, I had a talk with Robbie the other day. Oh my s—, man! We just keep getting so close to each other and just the thought, it bothers me. But you know, it’s great for ATT.
It’s certainly one of the top camps in the world, and it’s been interesting watching the resurgence there. Every fighter from ATT talks about that bond. How does knowing each other that well translate into your training sessions?
It just basically transitioned into a family. There’s a lot of teams, there’s a lot of camps, there’s a lot of individuals–but I can honestly say that American Top Team is a family. And I’ve been spoiled, because I’ve been with ATT since 2005. I’ve been fighting for ten years, and I’ve been fighting for the same team for ten years. I’ve never switched camps. I’ve traveled and I’ve visited at tons of camps, but my loyalty has always been with the same team. Their loyalty’s been with me.
They’ve watched me come from a training partner–I wasn’t even a fighter yet. I was a wrestler that was getting his butt kicked by Thiago Alves, Yves Edwards, Din Thomas . . . And I came in with just that wrestling pedigree and that pressure and that conditioning. And then I evolved. I tried my luck: I started in the amateurs, then I fought a few professional fights . . . I’ve been the product. Someone who wants to see how ATT can do a feeder program, how they can start somebody from the bottom, I’m like the perfect ambassador! I don’t even know if I had a pro fight–I maybe had like, one amateur fight when I first met all those guys.
We’ve talked a lot about how you’ve made improvements. I’m interested to hear your perspective on the specific improvements you’ve made. We saw a lot of changes and adaptations to your style in your last fight with Kelvin Gastelum. For example, Gastelum tried to pressure you, and that was something you struggled with against Rory MacDonald, but you dealt with it a lot better against Kelvin. You used a bit of a jab, you feinted, you used a lot more footwork to keep yourself off the fence, you were less hesitant with counters . . . what specific changes have you made to your training to bring about those changes in your performance?
First of all I appreciate that you identified what was going on. A lot of people were watching that fight just looking for cuts, blood, and knockouts.
I enjoyed that fight! I thought it was a good tactical battle.
It didn’t just happen like that. We trained for it to happen like that. This kid, he’s this cardio guy who gets knocked down and bounces back up and keeps pressuring–he has nothing to lose. He had already beat two big names in Rick Story and [Jake] Ellenberger. Not me. I’m not gonna be that guy. You’re not gonna come out here and get your name off me! So I had to calm his little young self down.
So you’re right, but it wasn’t just that I had problems with footwork and getting boxed in. it was the distractions that come in fight camps. It was, “Hey Tyron, you’re fighting for a world title,” then “Hey Tyron, no you’re not. Robbie and Matt Brown are fighting for that.” You know what I mean? I think I just measured the weight of each distraction that came towards me.
And also, I had so much fun. It was the easiest weight cut. It was the funnest training camp I ever had. Duke Roufus, man . . . I feel like I’ve known him my whole life now. And he really made fighting fun for me again. I’m like, indebted to him because he made it fun. He made it simple. He took away a lot of the [overanalysis I was doing]. And we worked a lot on footwork, we worked on movement. A lot of conditioning, a lot of running, a lot of sprinting. A lot of drills.
Some sparring, but you know, I’m a sparrer. And sometimes I think that, just from the meathead wrestling mentality, I need to beat myself and other people up four or five days a week just so I’m ready for a fight. And if you see this guy’s training camp, man . . . it’s a lot less sparring going on. A lot less 50-80 percent sparring going on. More conditioning, more strategy, more timing.
When you’re a young fighter, you should do it that way. Your body can take it. But when you’re a veteran, and I assume I’m at the point that I’ll be defined as a veteran, you either know you’re tough or you’re not. And I think I’m pretty tough, so. I just want to make sure I go out there and do the best I can.
Sparring is something that’s been coming up a lot lately, especially since Jose Aldo was injured before his big fight. It seems like fans have a hard time understanding the balance between not doing hard sparring all the time, and not sparring at all. Because you can’t just not spar.
Right, right. I mean, some guys don’t spar. There’s some guys that don’t spar that are kicking a lot of ass and you would never know that they don’t spar. And their cardio looks amazing, and they never miss a beat. Because their body is so fresh, and they don’t beat it up and beat it down.
I’m not one of those guys. I like to know that I made it through sparring rounds that I wanted to get out of, you know what I mean? I sparred yesterday. i was all pumped up about this fight, and I got this pro boxer that’s a southpaw. He’s faster than me, he’s a better boxer than me, but yesterday I put it on him. And that’s never happened. I was pumped up and we went pretty damn hard, but to do that every day?
Pat Miletich and all those guys, before all this science and stuff came, they were the pioneers of world champions. They had so many champs, and that was the way to do it. There was no science to tell them differently. Now even Pat Miletich is changing his mind. Even Matt Hughes, later in his career, started to pull back on the super hard sparring. There’s very few camps that still spar like that.
There’s AKA. When I go to AKA, brother, I’m almost ready to fight when I go there. Because if you’re not then you’re gonna get hurt. That is a fact. If you go to AKA feeling like you’re gonna do some 50 percent sparring or some light stuff, you’re gonna go in there and get knocked out and get hurt. It’s as close as you can get to a real fight as I’ve ever been. And I go out there when I’m, you know, two weeks out from a fight and I’m in fighting shape already. I want that mental edge to know that I can make it through it.
Is that kind of hard sparring instrumental to the improvements you’ve made in your sparring?
Yeah. You wouldn’t be able to tell now but when I started fighting I used to be terrified of getting hit. I used to go “aaah!” You would think I was being stung by an entire beehive. I just didn’t like it.
I knew I was athletic but I didn’t know that I would have the type of punching power that I have. But once someone made the encyclopedia for me and I treated it more like wrestling I just had explosive hits and fast twitch muscle fibers. I just basically learned better technique, better timing . . .
And I might not . . . I think Robbie probably had the most–if you say “Nobody move, just stand still, don’t use your body. just throw your arm and punch this thing as hard as you can,” then Robbie’s probably gonna be the m———– that hits the hardest. And then me and Johny are probably pretty close.
But when you put technique and timing and counters and punches you don’t see coming? I think I’m right up there at the top. Because when you watched me knock out Jay Hieron, or [Josh] Koscheck, it wasn’t that we were standing there slugging. I made them miss big and I countered even bigger, and they weren’t ready for it. That’s the punch that you don’t want to hit you, is the one you don’t see coming.
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For the rest of this interview, check back this afternoon and read part two. For the full audio interview, check out the full episode of Heavy Hands here.